The Marketing Journal
  • About
  • Interviews
  • Articles
  • Videos
  • Book Reviews
  • Views
  • Subscribe
“Small Data, Big Impact!” – An Interview with Martin Lindstrom

“Small Data, Big Impact!” – An Interview with Martin Lindstrom

May 1, 2016

Martin Lindstrom is one of the world’s leading brand building experts – advising Fortune 100 brands on how to build future-proof brands. Lindstrom is a global expert and pioneer in the fields of consumer psychology, marketing, brands, and neuro-scientific research. He is recognized by TIME Magazine as one of the “Worlds 100 Most Influential People.” The best-selling author of six groundbreaking books on branding, including Buyology: The Truth and Lies About Why We Buy, BRANDsense and Brandwashed, his latest book is Small Data –The Tiny Clues That Uncover Huge Trends.

Screen Shot 2016-04-28 at 12.35.20 PMYour story really begins with you at 12 years old, lying in bed with an illness that gives you a new power – the power of observation. To see why things are as they are. Coupled with your love of LEGO, it seem like you embarked on the Small Data journey at a very early age.  You eventually went on to work with LEGO.

Can you tell us the story?
As a kid growing up in Denmark, I had one main passion: LEGO.  I built and slept on a LEGO bed. The family garden was my very own Legoland, attracting visitors from near and far – including some Lego lawyers! Then, of all the children in the world, they gave me the first green brick in the collection! That’s what got me started in the crazy world of branding, marketing and advertising.

Later, I started advising LEGO on their overall branding strategy in 2004. From the mid-1990s, LEGO began moving away from its core products – building blocks – and focused on theme parks, clothing, video games, and retail stores.  They were convinced that thanks to computers and video games, the new-generation of kids demanded instant gratification, lacking the patience or the attention to engage with complex building projects.  Big data studies suggested that future generations would lose interest in LEGO.

But the Small Data told LEGO a different story.  LEGO learned from a 14-year LEGO fan that his skateboard exploits were measured (and honored) by the appropriate wear and tear on his shoes.  The worn look of the sneakers was a badge of honor.

That’s when LEGO realized that children attain social currency amongst their peers based on the mastery they displayed of their chosen hobby.

The result was that LEGO refocused on its core product, and created more challenging, labor-intensive, construction challenges. Customers, it turned out, valued a challenging LEGO experience.

Fast forward 10 years, and LEGO had become the world’s largest toy maker, surpassing Mattel for the first time.

Screen Shot 2016-04-30 at 5.44.27 PMSo where did the small data book idea come from? What is small data?
Small Data was born 4 years ago in Zambia. Malcolm Gladwell, author of Tipping Point and Outliers, and I were watching giraffes and elephants on the savannah and exchanging thoughts on my next book. Malcolm told of an urban legend that captured my imagination. In 1960, JFK single-handedly killed the hat industry by being the first President not to wear a hat to his inauguration. The hat industry started to decline shortly thereafter, prompting many to believe he was the cause of death. In reality, Kennedy did wear a hat en-route to the ceremony, but he removed it before taking the podium. Malcolm said it was a tiny move that caused a groundswell. In this case, it started a fashion revolution.

His words sparked a fire in my mind. If such a little detail could cause such a transformation, what other seemingly minor details are changing the world?

Since 2005, I’ve visited more than 2,000 consumers’ homes, across some 77 different countries, in order to not only prove that theory, but to understand what it takes to create huge transformations. I learned that Malcolm was spot on and that this theory represents an amazing wealth of insights, never discussed or researched before. I call this phenomena Small Data. It’s the tiny clues that uncover huge trends and can lead to the foundation for breakthrough ideas or transformative ways of turning around brands. Small Data is closer to my heart than any other book I’ve ever written. I take you behind the scenes as I travel the world discovering Small Data in places you’d never imagine, drawing parallels between observations and insights in ways even a hard core detective would find intriguing.

A murder scene would be worth little without modern scientific detection techniques. A strand of hair containing the culprit’s DNA, a fingerprint unique to the villain—these can lead the police right to the murderer.

But did you know that we leave behind tiny emotional DNA as well?

The way we place our shoes, organize our fridge, hang our paintings, or even use our toilet paper are all Small Data, that have the potential to reveal an astounding glimpse into who we really are, our true personalities, our needs and desires and hopes. On an individual level, Small Data can reveal if you’re extroverted and self-confident, if you’re shy about your lack of education, or if you have conflicts with your partner. They’ve also proven capable of determining your true age.

So I take it you are not a fan of Big Data?
I say you need both. But Big Data doesn’t necessarily spark emotion or deep insights into why your customers behave the way they do. In fact, I predict that Small Data will replace Big Data by 2017.

Your Subtext Research reveals underlying causes of why things are. You make some very interesting cultural observations.  What do Saudi and Russian women have in common?
One of the things we discover when looking at how people live, is that we can deduce what they long for – what their fears are, and even what they aspire to be.  In Russia and in Saudi Arabia, I noticed the fridge magnets that women displayed on their fridges. By showing off the softer, more artistic, more visually expressive, more feminine side of their characters, the fridge magnets seemed to have become a repository for these women’s hopes fantasies and aspirations. I saw the expression of a desire to escape the hardness and maleness of Russian life.  The magnets also symbolized the dreams Russian mothers had that their children might someday live lives less constrained and more refined than theirs.

Two years before my Russian experience, I was in Saudi Arabia to help design a shopping center.  In some ways, the populations of Russia and Saudi Arabia are very similar.  Russia’s cold weather can be paralyzing; in some regions Russians wall themselves off inside their homes for half the year. In Saudi Arabia the extreme desert heat prompts similar behavior. Both Russians and Saudis told me they would happily move someplace else.

The difference between the two cultures lay in the fridge magnets.

In Saudi Arabia most displayed obvious international icons: the Eiffel Tower, the Seine, Big Ben, London Bridge. What then, was the connection between the Saudi and Russian fridge magnets?  The need for escape.  In the Middle East that need for escape kept reappearing in the guise of familiar talismans like the Eiffel Tower.

It took me three of four visits to notice that the paintings in Saudi homes all had as their subject matter one theme: water. Your readers will have to read the book to find out how we used the small data to build the shopping center (chuckles).

You say that brands are not treating us as individuals. Instead they rely on an archaic and flawed segmentation process based on demographics. What should they be doing differently?
I define a brand as anything from the music on our playlists to our shoes, to our toothpaste, to the artwork hanging on our walls — they have profound things to say about who we are. Every successful brand stands for something more than itself, and that thing is emotional. A great brand promises hope, or desirability, or love, or acceptance, or luxury, or youth, or sophistication, or high-quality technology.

If companies want to understand consumers, big data offers a valuable, but incomplete, solution. I would argue that our contemporary preoccupation with digital data endangers high-quality insights and observations and that for all the valuable insights big data provides, the web remains a curated, idealized version of who we really are.

You make the startling statement that despite the fact that the 7 billion people on earth that there’s only between 500 to 1000 truly unique people on the planet what do you mean by that?
I didn’t say that to put down individuality.  I was pointing out the way in which humans are connected and how we can be divided by four criteria – Climate, Rulership, Religion, and Tradition.  Turns out that these four criteria can tell us quite a bit about how we behave.

Climate, for example, refers to how your environment reflects and influences your diet. Scandinavians prefer richer, fattier foods while the Mediterranean diet is lighter and more oil-based.

Rulership refers to the power or government in charge.

Religion refers to the influence of a belief in a country, how dominant it is, and whether a person’s belief system lies behind decision-making  processes.

Finally, Tradition is about a country’s unspoken protocols.  Think of the European habit to ignore other elevator passengers or the American predilection for friendliness.

Once you’ve taken these four variables into account, and set aside differences in class, race, skin color, and gender, humans are the same no matter where they live.

Can you describe your process for Small Mining or or Subtext Research? The 7 Cs?
Until recently, I never considered what I did as a repeatable methodology. I’m often asked about sampling bias, where members of the population are unequally represented?  It’s hard for many businesses to admit that rather than basing their research on millions of consumers, sometimes all it takes is 10 people to transform a brand or business.  The key is to identify an unmet desire, something that’s missing from people’s lives. When you do this, you are much closer to uncovering a gap that can be fulfilled with a new product a new brand, or even a new business.
Screen Shot 2016-04-30 at 4.59.36 PM
Remember that every culture in the world is out of balance, or in someway exaggerated– and in that exaggeration lies desire. The 7 Cs, as described in the book, stand for Collecting, Clues, Connecting,  Causation, Correlation, Compensation and Concept.
  • Collecting: how are your observations translated inside a home?
  • Clues: what other distinctive emotional reflections you are observing?
  • Connecting: what are the consequences of the emotional behavior?
  • Causation: what emotion does it evoke?
  • Correlation: when did the behavior or emotion first appear?
  • Compensation: what is the unmet or unfulfilled desire?
  • Concept: what is the “big idea” compensation for the consumer desire you have identified?
 Thanks for the discussion. I recommend your book to everyone, not just marketing and branding folks.

INTERVIEW by Christian Sarkar

Related Posts

“Technology and the Common Good” – Christian Sarkar and Philip Kotler

Analytics /

“Technology and the Common Good” – Christian Sarkar and Philip Kotler

“Wicked Problems” – An Interview with Philip Kotler and Christian Sarkar

B2B Marketing /

“Wicked Problems” – An Interview with Philip Kotler and Christian Sarkar

OP-ED: “Autopsy Of a Brand: Tesla” – George Tsakraklides

B2C Marketing /

OP-ED: “Autopsy Of a Brand: Tesla” – George Tsakraklides

‹ BOOK REVIEW: “Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days” by Jake Knapp, John Zeratsky, and Braden Kowitz › QUESTION: Content Marketing – “What can we Learn from Coca-Cola?”
A D V E R T I S E M E N T
A D V E R T I S E M E N T

Recent Posts

  • “Technology and the Common Good” – Christian Sarkar and Philip Kotler
  • “Cultural Presence: The Social Function of Milan Design Week” – Barbara Dal Corso
  • “Wicked Problems” – An Interview with Philip Kotler and Christian Sarkar
  • “Dragon proofing your legacy brand” – Grant McCracken
  • OP-ED: “Autopsy Of a Brand: Tesla” – George Tsakraklides
  • “The 5th P is Purpose” – Christian Sarkar and Philip Kotler
  • “The CEO-as-Brand Era: How Leadership Ego is Fueling Tesla’s Meltdown” – Ilenia Vidili
  • “The Future of Marketing is the Quest for Good” – Christian Sarkar and Philip Kotler
  • “Questions for the New Year” – John Hagel
  • “Enlightened Management – An Interview with Gabriele Carboni”
  • “If you’re not thinking segments, you’re not thinking” – Anthony Ulwick
  • “Does Marketing Need Curtailment for the Sake of Sustainability?” – Philip Kotler
  • ‘Social profit orientation’ can help companies and nonprofits alike do more good in the world by Leonard L. Berry, Lerzan Aksoy, and Tracey Danaher
  • “Understanding Hallyu: The Impact of Korean Pop Culture” by Sanya Anand and David Seyheon Baek
  • “Go-to-Market (GTM): A New Definition” – Karthi Ratnam
  • “Jobs-to-be-Done for Government” – Anthony Ulwick
  • “The Power of Superconsumers” – Christopher Lochhead, Eddie Yoon, & Katrina Kirsch
  • “Zoom Out/Zoom In – Making It Personal” – John Hagel
  • “Regeneration or Extinction?” – a discussion with Philip Kotler, Christian Sarkar, and Enrico Foglia
  • “Climate scientists: concept of net zero is a dangerous trap” – James Dyke, Robert Watson, and Wolfgang Knorr
  • “The allure of the ad-lib: New research identifies why people prefer spontaneity in entertainment” – Jacqueline Rifkin and Katherine Du
  • “What is ‘ethical AI’ and how can companies achieve it?” by Dennis Hirsch and Piers Norris Turner
  • “How the US military used magazines to target ‘vulnerable’ groups with recruiting ads” – Jeremiah Favara
  • “Ethics and AI: Policies for Governance and Regulation” – Aryssa Yoon, Christian Sarkar, and Philip Kotler
  • “Product Feature Prioritization —How to Align on the Right List” – Bob Pennisi
  • “The Community Value Pyramid” – Christian Sarkar, Philip Kotler, Enrico Foglia
  • “Next Practices in Museum Experience Design” – Barbara Dal Corso
  • “What does ESG mean?” – Luciana Echazú and Diego C. Nocetti
  • “ChatGPT could be a game-changer for marketers, but it won’t replace humans any time soon” – Omar H. Fares
  • “If Your Brand Comes Before Your Category, You’re Doing It Wrong” – Eddie Yoon, Nicolas Cole, Christopher Lochhead

Categories

  • Advertising
  • AI
  • Analytics
  • B2B Marketing
  • B2C Marketing
  • Big Data
  • Book Reviews
  • Brand Activism
  • Branding
  • Category Design
  • Community
  • Content Marketing
  • COVID-19
  • Creativity
  • Customer Culture
  • Customer Engagement
  • Customer Experience
  • Dark Marketing
  • Decision Making
  • Design
  • Digital Marketing
  • Ecosystems & Platforms
  • Ethics
  • Go to Market
  • Innovation
  • Internet of Things
  • Jobs-to-be-Done
  • Leadership
  • Manipulation
  • Marketing Technology
  • Markets & Segmentation
  • Meaning
  • Metrics & Outcomes
  • Millennials
  • Mobile Marketing
  • Non Profit Marketing
  • Organizational Alignment
  • Peace Marketing
  • Privacy
  • Product Marketing
  • Regeneration
  • Regenerative Marketing
  • Research
  • Retail
  • Risk & Reputation
  • Sales
  • Services Marketing
  • Social Media
  • Strategy & Business Models
  • Sustainability
  • Uncategorized
  • Videos

Archives

  • May 2025
  • April 2025
  • March 2025
  • January 2025
  • December 2024
  • September 2024
  • March 2024
  • October 2023
  • September 2023
  • June 2023
  • May 2023
  • April 2023
  • February 2023
  • January 2023
  • October 2022
  • August 2022
  • May 2022
  • January 2022
  • November 2021
  • September 2021
  • July 2021
  • June 2021
  • May 2021
  • March 2021
  • February 2021
  • January 2021
  • December 2020
  • October 2020
  • September 2020
  • July 2020
  • June 2020
  • May 2020
  • April 2020
  • March 2020
  • February 2020
  • January 2020
  • December 2019
  • November 2019
  • August 2019
  • July 2019
  • June 2019
  • May 2019
  • April 2019
  • March 2019
  • February 2019
  • January 2019
  • December 2018
  • November 2018
  • October 2018
  • September 2018
  • August 2018
  • July 2018
  • June 2018
  • May 2018
  • April 2018
  • March 2018
  • February 2018
  • January 2018
  • November 2017
  • October 2017
  • September 2017
  • August 2017
  • July 2017
  • June 2017
  • May 2017
  • April 2017
  • March 2017
  • February 2017
  • January 2017
  • December 2016
  • November 2016
  • October 2016
  • September 2016
  • August 2016
  • July 2016
  • June 2016
  • May 2016
  • April 2016
  • March 2016
  • February 2016
  • January 2016

Back to Top

© 2016-19 The Marketing Journal and the individual author(s). All Rights Reserved
Produced by: Double Loop Marketing LLC
By using this site, scrolling this page, clicking a link or continuing to browse otherwise, you agree to the use of cookies, our privacy policy, and our terms of use.
This website uses cookies to improve your experience. We'll assume you're ok with this, but you can opt-out if you wish.Accept Read More
Privacy & Cookies Policy